I can't say I can muster up a lot of sympathy for the guy. This whole "scandal" is at least as meaningless as Dick "Go Fuck Yourself" Cheney, if not more.

As for the LWAM, the fact is most people would not have heard of these "attacks" if he hadn't written petulantly about them.

If Teresa's "shove it" comment is the most important thing we've got to discuss in this election season, we're doomed.

Adam,
You miss the point entirely. The political divisiveness in this country is out of control. The rancor and anger is non-productive. You can try and justify this behavior any way you like but it doesn't hold any water in my book.

Good for him! I don't have a problem with her telling him to shove it, what I objected to was the denial of saying what was on tape!

Ralph Stefan, you are absolutely correct about the political divisiveness and the non-productivity of such rancor and anger.

Some seem to forget that her outburst of incivility was following a speech about the need for civility. That is the amuzing part. I suppose she was shocked, shocked by all this uncivility going on! Claude Rains would have been proud.

For the most part, I cannot stand reporters. It is not justifiable, but I understand why someone would treat a reporter like that. And no, I do not like the paper, either. The paper is the source that conservative Republicans in western Pa. rely upon most, if you define conservative Republican in a certain statist way.

Ralph,
You have a point but "The Pitt" is exactly the sort of partisan rag that creates the rancor you decry. Jack Germond knows a legitimate newspaperman when he sees one. He doesn’t see one in McNickle. Here is some of the fine, balanced, Scaife-inspired journalism that made Theresa less than welcoming to McNickle's harassment:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_203046.html

Edmond,
I saw the video of the Theresa "Zsa Zsa" Heinz-Kerry's "shove it" scene and it is a tempest in a teapot. I was referring to the link Rosemary provided. Assorted rants and threats flooded into this guy. It is like the country has mass "internet troll" hysteria. Not good.

Shep,
I think you linked the wrong article. The one I read outlined old Kenny boy's political ties on the left and the right. Other than this being fact, what is your problem with it?

Ralph,
Do you really think that Lay's political support of and personal relationship with Bush is the practical and moral equivalent of Heinz owning some Enron stock and Lay's 1995-97 membership on the Heinz Center board? C'mon, Ralph.

Shep,
Ken Lay was like that hemmerhoid guy on Conan. Instead of passing out tubes of Preparation H, he was passing out bribes to politicians funded by other peoples money. In this case, it was the money of investors and workers of Enron. He handed out plenty of bribes, right and left. It is indicative of our criminal corporate socialist government. It is truly bipartisan and you are blind if you think otherwise. Here's a couple of links for ya:

http://www.stopdemocrats.com/enron/

http://www.opensecrets.org/

Ralph:

I agree that political rancor is out of control and unproductive. But the more that we focus on these little incidents, the worse things get. Both sides are guilty of this.

I want to talk about issues. But every moment we spend on John Kerry's hamster or Cheney's outburst is a moment wasted.

Great non-partisan source, Ralph (no wonder you can't tell the good guys from the bad). "stopdemocrats.com"; sheesh!

Now, what on earth does any of that have to do with the specious assertion that there is some equivalency between George Bush’ relationship with Ken Lay and Theresa Heinz-Kerry’s. Please try to stay on the subject, which is “The Pitt’s” nakedly partisan approach to journalism.

Shep,
Kill the messenger. 50 points, all of them appeared to be sourced. Ken Lay is politically connected both left and right. You seem to take offense to this fact. Wake up and smell the coffee. Martha Stewart has been tried, convicted and sentenced for a $60,000 stock transaction. Ken Lay bilked billions of dollars from hard working people. How's the prosecution going? If you actually think people should get death threats for pointing out that Zsa Zsa Heinz-Kerry had connections with Ken Lay, I don't know what to say. It's a kinder, gentler nation?

Amen Adam, Amen. The reality is, we have no representation. Our government is a corporate socialist hydra running out of control. The filthy masses have to be tossed this minutia in order to be distracted from the real issues.

No Ralph, I think that death threats and even the harshly personal stuff are way over the top – even for a rotten Scaife propagandist ;-) And I share your concern about the loss of civility. And I agree that the differences in politics are only qualitative. But that doesn't mean that they're not important and, therefore, worth discerning.

Sorry, Shep, I would not describe "the Pitt's" as partisan. It most certainly is ideological, but not partisan. They endorsed Toomey in his primary challenge of Specter, and this was not the first time they supported the elimination of another Republican from office who was not sufficiently conservative for them. They have no problem endorsing Jane Orie and all of her nanny state nonsense, however.

If the Tribune had its way, there are quite a number of Republicans they would purge out of the Party of Lincoln, including yours truly. They are not a Republican paper. I would be able to read it if it was merely partisanly Republican, but they are not.

What is "corporate socialist"?

Is the "Zsa Zsa" reference some sort of ethnic slur? Lamenting the breakdown in civility in public discourse whilest resorting to childish name calling hardly moves us closer....(see irony).

At least she can pronounce "nuclear" and knows her head from a no-bid contract. Eight years of Kerry is gonna be great!! At least 41 and 43 did combine for eight years total in the oval office; that counts for something even if they did fuck EVERYTHING up.

Oh, and I'm obviously encouraging the continuance in the breakdown of civility in these discussions, because 1. I know my side is right, and 2. In the long run, we've got the numbers (even if the right has the guns).

Power to the People!!!

Nobody loves Republican fratricide more than I do, Edmond. But looking at their "reporting" and editorial slant should tell you that paper is sharply partisan against Democrats. As if being owned by arch-partisan Richard Mellon Scaife didn't practically guarantee it.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200407270001

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/scaifemain050299.htm

Tim,
You've hit on my next favorite item to contemplate. That would be PC (aka an Orwellian nightmare). Zsa Zsa was a rich show boat with an accent. I attempt a humorous comparison to Heinz-Kerry and I made an ethnic slur? I called Ken Lay the hemorrhoid man? Oh the temerity!

http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns_frames.html

I don't agree with all this guy's commentary but you get the idea.

Daaar-ling. So I guess all people with accents sound alike now don't they? Didn't Zsa Zsa slap a cop? Whereas, out "showboat" merely said "shove it" to an asshole reporter. But since they both have european accents, go ahead lump them together. Which one of these "showboats" has given a immense portion of her wealth to charitable causes? Most of my family is from Pennsylvania and have nothing but good things to say about her. She's hardly a "showboat."

Who would you rather have dinner with Teresa or George Bush? I'd prefer my meal not to include the option of pork-rinds as appetizers.

Tim,
Pretzels Tim. Not pork rinds. I'm not making ethnic slurs when I don't even know the ethnicity of Frau Gabor or Frua Heinz-Kerry. As for slapping cops and telling reporters to "shove it", you make some excellent comparisons. Last but not least, last I read, she was worth about a half a billion dollars. Apparently she isn't working as hard at giving away her fortune as you think she is. I'd make some fun out of the "gropeinator" but I'm fresh out of ethnic slurs.

Heinz is African (born and raised in Mozambique), Gabor is Hungarian. Different continents but they both talk funny and aren't very demur so, yeah, great comparison.

Ralph, no words dude. I rest my case.

Shep, I thought her name was Heinz-Kerry. I think she has the opportunity to be the greatest first lady since Jackie Kennedy. She will be a refreshing soul in the White House should John Kerry win the electoral college. Looks like we're in for a great race in November. Hang on.

Those guys in Utah stopped looking for Lori Hacking. Perhaps we can get them to start searching for your sense of humor? Truly pathetic.

Bring it all down Bobby B. This upset you? Your nanny goat government could fall to pieces and you'll actually have to do something for yourself? Reality is, no matter how hard you flail those wrists, it ain't gonna happen. Your corporate socialist government expands day by day. New script bennie, socialized medicine on tap. It's all about cradle to grave Bobby B. We want to take care of you your whole life. If you give your life to the government, we'll keep you flush with porn, warm home, education to read that porn, enough healthcare to keep your porn infested brain alive and a true sense of political correctness. Sound like a deal?

When I was in college, we used to tell "dead baby" jokes. Today, somebody might start telling "dead smurf" jokes and PETS (people for the ethical treatment of smurfs) will silence your politically incorrect humor. I have a message for you control freak sheep and you quisling corporate socialist freaks: shove it. OLIVER!

ED,
Sorry about that. What is corporate socialism? Look around you buddy. Free everything. Healthcare, pension, education. The government has it all. We'll keep you alive and you can work your corporate job 9 to 5 at Walmart. You have no representation because all your politicians are in the pocket of big money interests. Capitalism? It doesn't exist. If you make too much money, we'll sue you. If you get past that hurdle, you can buy the politicians and have the laws set that bar your competition. Sound good?

I think the wrong spouce is running for President.

Such Whining....I thought that behavior was reserved for us bleeding hearts...

Ralph corporate America is not interested in "Free everything. Healthcare, pension, education". Socialists might think people are entitled to those things, not the corporate world.
Capitalism is alive, well and running most of the world.
Unless you mean Socialism for Corporations, that is called Fascism.

Explitive deleted, I believe your last sentence is exactly what he meant!

Shep, now as soon as this Republican fratricide that you enjoy so much results in the purging of all those naughty conservatively challenged Republicans who still believe in the principles of the Party of Lincoln, where do you expect these expelled members to go? I'd be interested in the answer, as well as why they would be welcome wherever that might be.

Yes, the Tribune is anti-Democratic. Remember the Democrats around Pittsburgh and the surrounding areas are guys like Kukovich, who tend to be rather liberal. What angers the paper about such Democrats is that these culturally conservative areas can be so liberal in their political preferences. It is about ideology primarily. If the Democrats were in the hands of guys like James Eastland, their purely ideological streak would be more evident.

So, let me get my head wrapped around this. A reporter, because y'all do not approve of the paper he writes for, has no right to ask what a political person means by 'unAmerican' in a political speech. Further, it is right and proper for that reporter to get death threats and hate calls.
Nice America you people want.

The writing is on the wall.

Kerry's ratings never skipped a beat after his VP announcement.

Kerry's ratings never skipped a beat after the DNC.

Based on historical trends, Kerry WILL lose.

4 more glorious years of GW! Then 8 more of John McCain.

It's nice to have a plan.... and somebody people will elect.

"So, let me get my head wrapped around this. A reporter, because y'all do not approve of the paper he writes for, has no right to ask what a political person means by 'unAmerican' in a political speech. Further, it is right and proper for that reporter to get death threats and hate calls."

I have not seen anyone here advocate such a position. However, if I was giving a speech at the NRA and someone for the NYTimes asked me a question so they could have something to print against me for my pro 2nd Amendment views, I would have told such a reporter to shove it. I have no problem with telling a reporter from a hostile paper where to shove it.

No one is calling for the state to prevent him from asking the question of Theresa Heinz. The right to ask does not come with it a right to answer from the one asked, nor an obligation o the part of the asked party to pretend that the asker is a neutral party and not a hostile one. Why is the Philadelphia Inquirer so opposed to State Senator Vincent Fumo? He is powerful in the state party and he has the wrong views on some issues that matter to the paper.

Keep in mind, the Tribune never liked John Heinz. Do you suppose Theresa Heinz remembers that? Just a thought.

"4 more glorious years of GW!"

I'm still waiting for the first 4 glorious years.
If second 4 are like his first 4, he will go down in history as the one of the greatest failures as a president. The stats from the department of labor are liberal, the squandered surplus is not a partisan issue, the curtailment of liberty is not a liberal cause, the lack of real wage increase for workers (CEOs aside) is not to be considered a success. A piss-poor plan for Iraq is not glorious.

When the generals at the pentagon say we need more Soldiers, fucking chicken-hawk civilian pussies like wolfowitz and rumsfeld don't get to say no. They should be listening. Soldiers have died and will continue to die in Iraq because our those fucknuts didn't listen to the men in uniform. I don't think Rumsfeld is an evil bad man, but there is alot of blood on his hands.

I'm a Soldier, and I'm pissed!

O K

Tim, get back on the meds. If you really think that soldier, and only soldiers, are entitled to make decisions about military matters, not only have you undercut the very concept of civilian supervision of the military, you display an ignorance of history that is breathtaking.

Well, for a conservative, anyway. For a liberal, your cluelessness is par for the course. Heh.

BTW, if you can come up with a way to fight a war without anyone dying, please do speak up. The rest of us (not to mention the entire history of mankind) is just dying to know the answer.

Edmond the Libertarian:

Very good. "Shove it" is good. Good for Teresa Heinz-Kerry. So is "fuck yourself". Good for Vice President Cheney. Those types of responses are often called for these days.

That paper is statist? Santorumite? Then I'm against it.

But, as to the original subject of this post for a moment, I wouldn't send death threats or hate mail even to Santorum. That behavior is just despicable, no matter who does it to who. I condemn it. This is not to say that anyone in this thread has advocated such behavior.

Back to the more interesting subject, the leanings of that paper, I certainly hope they are _not_ able to push the Republican party of Pennsylvania further in a statist, paternalist direction. The Republican party needs to get back to its original principles of limited government and individual freedom and responsibility.

ED,
Corporations traditionally offered pensions and healthcare as employee benefits. Nothing would make them happier than to off load these costs of business on the government. The government is all to happy to take them. Will these corporations then raise the pay of their employees by a like amount? I don't think so.

All this stuff isn't free. Somebody has to pay for it. The legacy that we will leave our children is one of a massive tax burden. Somebody touched on it earlier, Americans don't talk about the real issues. I missed the discussion on the ever expanding role of government in our lives. I only hear about "free healthcare" and "healthcare is a right". We might as well talk about tooth fairies. This stuff isn't free and we'll pay for it with ever increasing taxes.

This isn't fascism. I recommend you look up the word in the dictionary. What we have today is a hybrid form of socialism where the government and big money interests work hand in hand. It is a tightening noose.

Ralph Stefan, I believe Explitive Deleted would note that fascist governments did promise such things as free health care. I would also note that large corporations not only were powerful under the fascist government of Mussolini, but that they had millions of slave workers provided to them by the Nazi government to run plants during the war. It was one of the largest German corporations that provided the zyklon-b for the gas chambers. Explitive Deleted would probably state that there was a great deal of such interaction and cooperation between government and corporations under fascism.

Defining fascism in strictly terms of hatred of other races is inadequate at best, if one is looking at fascism as a system of government.

I prefer to use your entire name, Explitive Deleted. The abbreviated form of your name I have seen in too many ads in the Wall Street Journal. ;-)

Nazi = National Socialist German Workers' Party. Socialist in the sense of total state control of everything, but neither Communist in the sense of explicit state ownership nor Capitalist in the sense of a free economy. We are still only in the Weimar Republic, but we are heading in that direction. The parallels are ominous. We still have time to turn back. We must not give in to either complacency or despair.

Edmond,
I was always under the impression that fascism required a dictator who utilized massive oppression. Businesses cooperated out necessity.

What we are missing here is the dictator and mass oppression. Instead, what is happening is we are slowly being lulled to sleep. Right now, we work until late April, early May just to pay our taxes. Our friends to the north toil until middle of July (but remember, they have free healthcare). After we implement "free" healthcare and "free" college tuition, just how late in the year will we be working to pay our taxes? All this "free" government stuff looks great on paper but...

Steve,
Hitler utilized socialism to get his foot in the door. The mobs really ate up the "turkey in every pot" line he was handing out. Once he gained power, there can be no doubt that his government was fascist. While our politicians are in the pocket of big money, I honestly don't see a dictator in America's future.

Bobby B.,
You should consider starting your own blog rather than cluttering up Rosemary's comment section with lefty talking points.

“Shep, now as soon as this Republican fratricide that you enjoy so much results in the purging of all those naughty conservatively challenged Republicans who still believe in the principles of the Party of Lincoln, where do you expect these expelled members to go?”

Don’t get me wrong, Edmond, I’d hate to see any harm come to them ;-). I just figure if they’re attacking each other they’re too busy to attack Democrats. There’s a perfect home for Party of Lincoln Republicans who believe in social tolerance, fiscally responsibility and foreign policy conservatism. Do I even have to tell you where that is?

“If second 4 are like his first 4, he will go down in history as the one of the greatest failures as a president.”

Tim,
I think you’ve misunderestimated him. In that particular aspect, he’s already an overachiever.

Well, Peter, thanks for addressing the actual topic of this thread. No one else wanted to (well, Edmond had a quasi-follow up).

So, everyone who's yakking about everything else, the question on the table was how do you feel about assholes who call up reporters at home (regardless of your opinion of said reporter) and scream at their family about something the reporter asked of Teresa Heinz Kerry?

And by the way, she said exactly what the man said she did, and denied it. But this isn't about Teresa, I can give her the "I'm flustered" benefit of the doubt.

Me? I don't give a damn what she said. Really. Shove it? Feh.

But some nutbag screaming at the guy's daughter? Please.

Comments? On topic?

Follow up question. Is it interesting to you that Kerry and Teresa have recently toned down their response to hecklers? Somebody got coached about saying "fuck" and "goons".

Harassing people in their own home is despicable, it's an invasion of privacy, and I condemn it. Period.

I agree with Steven Malcolm Anderson the Lesbian-worshipping gun-loving selfish aesthete on what he said in the last post. He, as usual, is quite right.

They also should have the guts and say those things to his face. If they really are all about protesting his behavior, they should tell him to his face the obscenities they screamed anonymously into the phone. We know what the Governor Arnold would say about them, do we not?

It would show respect for the privacy rights of he and his family, a certain sense of justice (his wife or children did not say anything to Heinz), and an amount of courage by taking him on in public and openly.

Thank you gentlemen.

By the way Tim the Soldier, I noted in another thread you are recovering from surgery - I hope that goes well for you.

"I'm not a war president, but I play one on TV"... gw bush