Steven Malcolm Anderson 4 GodsSelfSex (mail) (www):
What is un-American is attacking our soldiers and siding with the enemy. I dare call it treason.
The Queen of All Evil wrote:
"I know that but I think about 9/11, Nick Berg, the men that were burned and strung up in Fallujah, the other hostages that were beheaded and put on video tape, the car bombs, the suicide bombers and the clerics that say it is okay to kill innocent men, women and children because they are infidel scum. I am an infidel to them. They'd lop off my head if they could, they'd bomb my kid's school if the opportunity presented itself and they'd celebrate every success in the street with fireworks. It makes it really hard to give a rat's ass."
I, for one, don't give a rat's ass about how harsh we are to terrorists. We need to be harsher, I say, tougher, not softer. The real issue is everything the Queen named here. They are terrorists, rapists, murderers. They are my enemies, and I will deal with them accordingly. The real issue is that we are at War for the very survival of the United States of America, of all that is left of our Western civilization, of freedom. And I say we must fight to win this War by whatever means necessary. The only alternatives are victory or slavery. Anybody who in any way impedes our War effort is a traitor, a Quisling. Political Correctness is treason, and it will destroy us if we let it. Harsh, I know. That's the way I am.
Noriega, however, had escaped capture by claiming asylum in the Vatican Embassy in Panama City. After playing loud rock music 24 hours a day, every day, for over a week, Noriega surrendered."
People who died in Fallujah was a "Dogs of war", ex-Navy Seal, Delta, French Legion and other elite army unit. Well this soldiers knowed what they did in Iraq. But... in Baghdad died to polish ex - Grom unit soldiers last year. Normal people with wifes and kids.
I saw a photography. - In dark, dirty room in Fallujah, on floor sprawl dead American soldier. In blood, very many blood. He look like broken toy. He was US Marine, In his modern uniform, helmet, Interceptor vest, with M4 carbine, nightvision and other advanced equipment. - Superwarrior, Super GI, but in this moment he was so poor, delikate, like child.
I was in shock. Life is so weak.
I do not know what i want to say. We must fight with terrorists, but we are Christians, so we must love our enemy. War is everytime absolutely evil, we must member about it. In every war die innocent pepole, but somethimes we must fight on war. Life is not easy, is very cruel.
But it isn't more shameful that it happens in Gitmo than any other prison.
I would disagree on this point, Rosemary. Repectfully.
I've lost track of the views in the previous thread. By my last read, it had degenerated into a cacophany of subjects that had little to do with the central question. It's abundantly clear that there are differring opinions, and even more clear that those on both sides are not going to change soon.
In the U.S. prison system, abuses occur. That's the reason we all try to stay out of them ;) Noone wants to be butt-f'd or the recipient of a shiv. But there is a fundamental difference here. Those in our prisons have been convicted by a jury of their peers of a crime. In Gitmo, et. al., we have only those that have been interred as a result of either intelligence or proximity to the battlefield.
Are some of them terrorists? NO DOUBT. Are all of them? NO DOUBT (NOT!).
I feel your ambivalence towards their treatment. I mentioned as much in a post previously. After watching the brutal beheading of a contractor, I had trouble sleeping. I wanted to behead the slime that did it.
I've come to my senses, on my own terms.
No matter how brutal the behavior of those abominations is, I prefer to think of the U.S. as the world leader in human rights. If we allow ourselves to degenerate to their level, *even in part*, we have sunk to their level.
War is not an excuse.
Are there liable to be transgressions during wartime by those in the heat of battle? Surely. I don't agree that it is something our society as a whole should embrace.
We should learn from our past mistakes. For example, the detention of Japanese Americans during WWII. Who today can stand up and say that it was right? As a country, we have apologized. Imagine future generations passing judgement on our behavior today, on our acceptance of torture in any form? Against people we *think* are terrorists.
I'm sorry. I will not be a willing participant to torture in the name of Democracy. It stands against the very idea. I love this country deeply. And I stand behind the ideals that we have striven to promote to the world since the cold war. The ideals that the rest of the free world see us as abandoning. To my amazement as well as theirs.
There is always a way to justify anything, even torture. I would totally support torture if it worked. The problem with torture is that it rarely ever works.
The Queen of All Evil wrote:
"I know that but I think about 9/11, Nick Berg, the men that were burned and strung up in Fallujah, the other hostages that were beheaded and put on video tape, the car bombs, the suicide bombers and the clerics that say it is okay to kill innocent men, women and children because they are infidel scum. I am an infidel to them. They'd lop off my head if they could, they'd bomb my kid's school if the opportunity presented itself and they'd celebrate every success in the street with fireworks. It makes it really hard to give a rat's ass."
I, for one, don't give a rat's ass about how harsh we are to terrorists. We need to be harsher, I say, tougher, not softer. The real issue is everything the Queen named here. They are terrorists, rapists, murderers. They are my enemies, and I will deal with them accordingly. The real issue is that we are at War for the very survival of the United States of America, of all that is left of our Western civilization, of freedom. And I say we must fight to win this War by whatever means necessary. The only alternatives are victory or slavery. Anybody who in any way impedes our War effort is a traitor, a Quisling. Political Correctness is treason, and it will destroy us if we let it. Harsh, I know. That's the way I am.
News Alert: December 20, 1989
Noriega, however, had escaped capture by claiming asylum in the Vatican Embassy in Panama City. After playing loud rock music 24 hours a day, every day, for over a week, Noriega surrendered."
People who died in Fallujah was a "Dogs of war", ex-Navy Seal, Delta, French Legion and other elite army unit. Well this soldiers knowed what they did in Iraq. But... in Baghdad died to polish ex - Grom unit soldiers last year. Normal people with wifes and kids.
I saw a photography. - In dark, dirty room in Fallujah, on floor sprawl dead American soldier. In blood, very many blood. He look like broken toy. He was US Marine, In his modern uniform, helmet, Interceptor vest, with M4 carbine, nightvision and other advanced equipment. - Superwarrior, Super GI, but in this moment he was so poor, delikate, like child.
I was in shock. Life is so weak.
I do not know what i want to say. We must fight with terrorists, but we are Christians, so we must love our enemy. War is everytime absolutely evil, we must member about it. In every war die innocent pepole, but somethimes we must fight on war. Life is not easy, is very cruel.
I would disagree on this point, Rosemary. Repectfully.
I've lost track of the views in the previous thread. By my last read, it had degenerated into a cacophany of subjects that had little to do with the central question. It's abundantly clear that there are differring opinions, and even more clear that those on both sides are not going to change soon.
In the U.S. prison system, abuses occur. That's the reason we all try to stay out of them ;) Noone wants to be butt-f'd or the recipient of a shiv. But there is a fundamental difference here. Those in our prisons have been convicted by a jury of their peers of a crime. In Gitmo, et. al., we have only those that have been interred as a result of either intelligence or proximity to the battlefield.
Are some of them terrorists? NO DOUBT. Are all of them? NO DOUBT (NOT!).
I feel your ambivalence towards their treatment. I mentioned as much in a post previously. After watching the brutal beheading of a contractor, I had trouble sleeping. I wanted to behead the slime that did it.
I've come to my senses, on my own terms.
No matter how brutal the behavior of those abominations is, I prefer to think of the U.S. as the world leader in human rights. If we allow ourselves to degenerate to their level, *even in part*, we have sunk to their level.
War is not an excuse.
Are there liable to be transgressions during wartime by those in the heat of battle? Surely. I don't agree that it is something our society as a whole should embrace.
We should learn from our past mistakes. For example, the detention of Japanese Americans during WWII. Who today can stand up and say that it was right? As a country, we have apologized. Imagine future generations passing judgement on our behavior today, on our acceptance of torture in any form? Against people we *think* are terrorists.
I'm sorry. I will not be a willing participant to torture in the name of Democracy. It stands against the very idea. I love this country deeply. And I stand behind the ideals that we have striven to promote to the world since the cold war. The ideals that the rest of the free world see us as abandoning. To my amazement as well as theirs.
Who in a free society advocates torture?
Ron