I demand that the proper use of the term traitor be reinstated in blogging. I'm so absolutely sick of the words traitor, treason and Benedict Arnold. I'm about one false charge of traitor short of going postal. I swear to the Almighty, if another person falsely launches a libelous assault on someone else with any those terms, I will cut their balls off. Not literally, of course. The sting will still feel the same I assure you.
trea·son
n. 1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies. 2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.
trai‧tor
noun 1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust. 2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
No place in there does it say you are a traitor for not ass kissing your country's Allies. Not for hating your country's Allies, either. I think Stalin was a piece of shit. I think Communism blows and I despise that ideology with every fiber of my soul.
I am not a traitor to the country of my birth, the country that I love because I HATE Stalin's rotted corpse. I don't give a flying fig that he was on our side during WWII. That choice wasn't made because Stalin was our sovereign. He wasn't a member of our government. The U.S. used him like a $2 whore and when we were done, we all hoped he dropped dead.
If you don't like our Allies, you are a traitor now?
What bullshit is this? I know this is the new millennium but that doesn't mean some bloggers get to revise definitions to fit their closed-minded "liberal" bent.
Not agreeing with your world view doesn't make me wrong. It means we disagree. It also means your hand is going to be very, very sore...
Oops, I meant hands, not hand, from all that back tracking and re-clarification of your position till your baseless attacks start sounding reasonable.
R.I.P. Steven Malcolm Anderson
Minion
of the Week
It looks like that make-up sex is not going to happen anytime soon! :)
I'd add the very lame "crypto-fascist" to that list of terms.
This is the first time I have ever heard of it or seen it in print. What the hell does it mean?
I'm with Sandi, wtf is a "crypto-fascist"? ++, you come up with some wierdass words. Maybe they're Canadian English...
And no, not liking our allies does not equate one to a traitor. We have allies we like (the UK, Aussies, Kiwis, Poles) and we have allies we need to use (Pakis, Indians, SK, etc.). Accepting that some of our 'allies' are nothing more than paid-for whores doesn't make it wrong to call them that. Just reminds them they aren't close enough to us to deserve "familial" status (ala the Brits).
You must be new to Dean's World.
The term refers to those who have a fascist ideology, but pretend to be something other than a fascist. The term is often used by those who really, really want to call someone a fascist, but don't have any good reason to. Also used frequently by people who don't know what fascism means, or who mistakenly equate fascism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism.
There are people that call themselves patriots even though they celebrate every US troop death. Their logic is, if enough troops die, then the US will retreat from Iraq. An these people feel that true patriots would remove the troops from Iraq.
As I say, many people redefine terms to suite their argument.
And here I thought you actually read Dean's stuff, Rhianna. And I also thought that you were well-read. Maybe you might want to check a dictionary or encyclopedia before thinking that I "came up" with an expression.
It's fairly egotistical to assume that because you're not familiar with an expression, it doesn't exist, or isn't commonly used. Well, used by people with some understanding of political ideologies.
Who would that be, Ted? Links, please.
Well, Mark didn't get what I was saying, but you did. Probably before I said it. And Brian Macker made the same point in one of the older threads, I think on the 21st.
Here's something. I suspect Hamid Karzai himself understands that some Americans will be convinced that Islam is the problem. Shoot, for all we know, Hamid Karzai isn't too fond of American liberalism, with it's corrupting acceptance of sexual immorality, alcoholism and drug abuse. Purity is important to most people in the world. Maybe we are his allies of convenience.
Yours,
Wince
Who would that be, Ted? Links, please.
Two words: Ward Churchill.
Now, did he say he celebrated the death of every soldier? No. But he did celebrate the deaths of most of those who perished in the twin towers.
So I'm sure such people exist.
And no, I'm not going to go to Ask.com for links. I'm having to do enough searches just to try to work with Struts. This is a conversation, not a research paper. I don't want it to be a chore.
Yours,
Wince
I think Connie has retired from the fray, although I see a comment once in a while, most often at Kim's site. I miss her.
Yours,
Wince
Ah yes, the living strawman, dragged from the depths of obscurity by cheering right-wingers who parade him around the room everytime they need to put a moonbat on display.
The fly in the ointment being that Ted used the word "many." So I assume there's more than one lunatic celebrating the death of every serviceman.
The term refers to those who have a fascist ideology, but pretend to be something other than a fascist. The term is often used by those who really, really want to call someone a fascist, but don't have any good reason to. Also used frequently by people who don't know what fascism means, or who mistakenly equate fascism with authoritarianism or totalitarianism.
Actually a daily reader since early 2003. Ah... and a made up word why didn't you say so. And I should write down or remember every term Dean makes up?
Isn't Ward Churchill such a fantastic all-purpuse liberal boogeyman? He slices, he dices, he's both a floor wax and a dessert topping! The thing is, people on the right are masters at using anecdotal evidence to prove sweeping generalizations.
Then you need to read more carefully. Dean uses the term a lot.
...and a made up word why didn't you say so.
I have no idea what you're talking about. It's a word that has been in usage for the last forty years or so.
And I should write down or remember every term Dean makes up?
Feel free to forget everything he says.
There's no fly in the ointment. Twenty is "many" if distributed across four jetliners. We had hundreds of active spies for the Soviets in the West. Those were people who did real damage. And if we had hundreds of such spies then, how many thousands were there who wanted our "baby killers" to die?
The repeated and despicable calls for glass parking lots ought to clue you in that people will latch on to some pretty nasty ideas. I had a good Democrat (and a good friend) confide in me that she thought we ought to kill everyone in Fallujah at one point. Now she is going to anti-war rallies.
Links, sminks. Use your common sense and what you know about people just from the positions people take in these threads and your knowledge of history. Do you remember what Kos said about mercenaries? Are you implying that the terrorist impulse doesn't express itself in America among non Muslims and peace activists? Do you freakin' remember the Weather Underground? The SLA? Lee Harvey Oswald, the Communist?
Of course many such people exist. It's human nature!
Yours,
Wince
Yes, Connie's seething hatred for anyone and anything to the left of Rick Santorum was quite bracing. My favorites among her writings are many, and unfortunately now taken offline. But I remember fondly her warnings that we weren't doing enough to dehumanize our enemies. She's a national treasure, that woman.
Connie is a treasure. What have you brought to the table?
Yours,
Wince
The left's extremists (like Ward Churchill) are a source of embarassment to them. The right-wing's are celebrated.
See ya.
Yours,
Wince
Did it appear I was trying to compare my non-existent societal impact to hers? I wouldn't dare.
Well, let's see. Wince has become angered or offended (likely both) by my suggestion that Connie is an extreme rigth winger. The implication would then be that Wince thinks she's representative of mainstream conservative thought.
Would that be correct?
Wince is very loyal to his friends, and that is an admirable trait.
It's even worse when they spit on members of our armed forces who just happen to be the wrong religion (or color, or anything else).
I won't stop saying it and I won't take it back. If you make crass, gross generalizations about Muslims you're spitting on our allies and spitting some of the people who've fought and died under the flag of this country--and you should be ashamed.
In Michael Moore's case, just for example, we could say he is clearly both a crypto-fascist and a traitor. ;-)
So what did you think of that cunt Ann Coulter's book, Treason? I seem to recall you liked it quite well. So, just curious: is the "proper use" of the term "traitor" only for when liberals give aid and comfort to our enemies by undermining the war effort with treasonous hateful stupid garbage (like Fahrenheit 9/11)?
Whereas when conservatives undermining our friendships with our allies, diminishing respect for serving Muslim members of the armed forces, diminish respect for Muslims fighting side by side with American forces, and accepting Al Qaeda's talking points as representative of Muslims generally, that's not treason. Because why, only liberals can act like traitorse?
Pfft. Stop sliming our friends and allies and loyal citizens.
Fascism, by it's economic structure, is inherently right of center. Corporatism was the word Mussolini prefered. Big business working hand in hand with government. As an authoritarian system intolerant of dissent, the Soviet system was the leftist analogue.
As soon as Dean starts using that phrase, along with obsessive Michael Moore references, unfounded ad hominum attacks and gratuituous use of language you would deem unseemly, it's a sure signal that he's either back on the sauce or off his meds.
He's in a true manic state right now. Quite irrational.
Me, I prefer it used for people who pretend to be democratic leaders of a free society but then secretly kidnap purported enemies, torture them in secret prisons or turn them over to others who torture for us. Insecure, psychopathic underachievers who violate their oath of office to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States," and then spy on citizens in violation of federal law and throw American citizens in prison without trial. Propagandists who create fake news (sometimes not on FOX) and present it to the public as journalism, who work to place more of the public media in the hands of fewer elite patrons, who leak government secrets that harm national security and then threaten journalists for publishing information about government spying and abuse of power. Autocrats, who make government conduct more secret from its citizens and responsive to only narrow groups who support them in cult-like fashion.
Perhaps even for those who call their fellow citizen who dare to criticize their lawless, corrupt government “traitors” or “givers of aid and comfort to the enemy,” when it is they themselves who are helping to accomplish the terrorists’ work in ways the terrorists could not hope for in their wildest, most hateful dreams.
But that’s probably just me.
David Duke, Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, Pat Buchanan--not really much air between 'em that I can see.
Kim and Connie du Toit, Michelle Malkin, Dean Esmay - not much air between'em.
It's hardly descriptive and meant only to inflame passions. It's what we would call "more prejudicial than probative" in a courtroom, and rule inadmissible.
BTW, anyone who never heard of "crypto-fascist," which has been around since the 60's, but doesn't blink when hearing the newly created "islamo-fascist," really needs to expand their sources of information.
Dean's right, however. If terminology is fluid enough that he can claim to be a liberal, anything's possible.
No doubt, they'd all take that as a compliment.
Except Dean's latest crusade is ginning up a feud with Malkin.
Because nearly as I can tell, all those words now mean, "Someone I don't like" on the Intertrons.
I think anyone who spits on our allies when we're busy fighting side by side with them is by definition acting like a traitor.
Possibly, however, Brian Macker isn't "spitting" on our allies. He's generally responding to comments that the Koran doesn't prescribe violence by showing that it does. If I said that the Bible didn't condone violence, would you call someone who proved me wrong a traitor?
You owe him a very public apology.
As for Islam, to deny that its followers have historically used it as an excuse to conquer and convert, well, that's just historical illiteracy.
Many people have used Christianity for the same purpose. The difference? They generally stopped that between 300-500 years ago. Islam hasn't. There's a reason that Islam's borders are bloody.
Our enemies continually use their religion as a justification for their deeds, why would anybody be a traitor for pointing that out?
None. I think that saying I have a problem with some Muslims or even many Muslims interpretation of their religion and the actions they take because it makes me nothing more than a person with an opinion. An American.
I don't think my religion is superior, well, actually I do. I'm pretty sure the Pope or any Cathiolic priests aren't currently searching for ways to suggest that Jesus is fine with killing anyone.
Dean won't give an apology because his mind is closed and he refuses to see that he is not only wrong but nasty.
Of course, by Dean's own definition he is also a traitor. I'm pretty sure all those "I hate the French" rants qualify. So am I by his new rule.
I guess it's a good thing Dean doesn't make the rules, just foolish assertions.
The only people who think the labels are "fluid" are people who don't understand the ideologies in the first place. It's not a perfect description, but generally right-wing ideologies hold that society works best when people pursue their individual desires, while left-wing ideologies hold that society works best when people cooperate with each other.
So calling Michael Moore a fascist or crypto-fascist just indicates a lack of understanding of the term.
And speaking of myths, someone should let Dean know that the video he links to on his blog (the girl being tossed through a basketball hoop) is a CGI fake, a viral video released almost two years ago.
Paranoia is about feelings of persecution and delusions of grandeur.
This from a guy who starts a blog of his own opinion that he actually titles “Dean’s World,” where he argues for executing journalists, that documentary filmmakers are “fascists” and where he bans anyone who disproves his ridiculous arguments.
Besides, who approves giving George Bush dictatorial powers and supports bankrupting his children’s future out of fear of the caliphate, i.e, a bunch of 1,000-year-throw-back, cave-dwelling lunatics with box-cutters?
No, they’re too busy slandering other people’s prophets and boinking alter boys in the rectory (so to speak). Very impressive.
He didn't slander anyone's prophet. You got me on the boinking, yeah some bad ones there. Of course, no head choppers in the bunch.
Bravo. Extremely well-stated.
Everytime I come here I feel the love!
Of course, the solice of knowing that your religion only hides the anal rape of young boys.
Ah, but then there's that Christian president of yours. I'm willing to bet that there are at least 100,000 dead Iraqi civillians who don't care much how they were murdered by him.
No worse than say all the rape of children being committed by unionized public school teachers. Sure, they are teachers not priests but they are trusted with our children just the same.
Exactly. Not much to feel superior about.
Thanks for your apology. It is accepted. I'm glad I walked away when I did. I was so tempted to say things I would later regret.
I would like to have a good discussion about this with you and Adam sometime. Not today. I'm not up for it.
Adam,
I withdraw this question: What have you brought to the table?
There's no call for that.
Yours,
Wince