1. Guaranteeing everyone's health care is not the same as buying a cell phone. If you need me to explain why, well — look over there! Shiny keys!!
2. Giving people a tax deduction for buying health care from a bloated, inefficient private-sector system will do only one thing: raise prices for everyone.
3. Nothing in this "plan" makes health care univerally available.
The best solution is to make Medicare available to everyone right now. And then, if you want to buy additional coverage, go right on ahead.
It's a fine idea. Since universal medicare isn't going to happen, making it possible for people like us to afford health insurance is a fine idea.
It will be reflexively opposed by market ideologue conservatives, and by the BDS-afflicted haters. But it offers something that sensible centrists in both parties can find attractive.
Too bad we didn't get the medical savings accounts though. Thanks to the so-called "progressives," whose all-or-nothing approach over the last 30 years has made things steadily worse.
Dean's right. Damn those "progressives," with their suffrage and worker's rights and health insurance and minimum wage and civil rights and public education. How dare they!
"To tell the truth, as an outsider, I can't make head or tail of your system, and this just seems to make it more complex."
It's not you, ++. Bottom line, it's the politics of money - Republicans servicing the private insurance industry. And, to be fair, some people honestly believe that "the marketplace" will yield the best solution to national healthcare, they just don't understand that insurance companies aren't really a natural part of the healthcare marketplace, they're just exploiters. Basically, in their simplistic way of thinking, if it's corporate it's market; if it's government it's anti-market. Go figure.
Every time I hear stuff like this about your system, I feel grateful for ours. I go to the doctor or hospital, I get treated, and that's it. Almost no paperwork, no insurance companies, no worrying about what is and what is not covered, no bullshit.
"Every time I hear stuff like this about your system, I feel grateful for ours."
You have no idea how broken our system is, even for many people with means but no employer-paid insurance. A healthy, non-smoking couple over age 50 is looking at a minimum of $8-9K a year for insurance access to primary care. A pre-existing condition, accident or serious illness can make healthcare unaffordable for almost everyone.
No other country is so affected by corporate-contrived ideology and public policy. That’s why, at least when it comes to their healthcare systems, most industrialized nations have a healthier healthcare marketplace.
In the US I've read (somewhere) that the majority of health care dollars are spent on people in the last 6 months of their lives. Is there some way to confirm the truth of this? Also -- is that the way it works in Canada, or Denmark, or Sweden or [pick your country]?
What I'm getting at is this:
do people truly fear a change to "that" style of universal health care because they think they'll be denied some sort of life-prolonging procedure near the end of their lives?
You know -- you keep hearing about how cardiac surgery is "rationed" in Canada, or Denmark, or Sweden or [pick your country].
Y'all get where I'm going with this?
Yes, yes, I know: universal health care would emphasize care throughout your life which would mean you'd be healthier and live longer. I'm pretty sure that the statistics show that to be true.
But that's not the issue for people who really fear what they have come to call "Hillary Care." They really and truly believe they will be presented with R. Crumb's "Cyanide Pie" at the age of 75. I'm convinced that this is why everyone found Dr. Kevorkian so sinister, despite everything to the contrary.
My dad got a kidney transplant here in Canada at age 61.
The stuff you hear about rationing, etc, is crap. There are waiting lines for some non-critical stuff, but life-threatening conditions are dealt with promptly. There are occasional problems in certain communities, but these are generally administrative problems or resource allocation issues, and are exceptions rather than the rule.
In general, the care we receive is comparative in quality to the average facilities in the US, except that we provide care for everyone, and at a lower price.
The same way we addressed the train-wreck that was Republican control of government: tell the people the truth. Now that we have the means (the internets), we can catapult (over) the propaganda.
I think that, at least, they've now been convinced that insurance-industry system isn't working. Now we need to make the case why scare tactics of the right are bullsh*t (and who's behind them) and how single-payer would really work.
By the way, the costs of coverage here is $54/month for an individual, $96/month for a couple, or $108/month for a family of three or more. Those who can't afford this are subsidized, sometimes to 100%, depending on income.
"So a family of three or more would get coverage for around $91 US, or $1092 a year."
I'm paying almost five times that (for two healthy people) and have no coverage at all until we spend $5,000 on healthcare. And that's still cheaper than just the premiums on a policy with a co-pay and no high deductable.
If there's any good news, I think the insurance companies have cut their own greedy throats with this crap.
I have AIDS and have had it since 1986. My medical bills range from $500 - $1,000.00 a month. That's medication that only keeps me alive. I don't get better since there is no cure. What my community is doing is buying time. Living longer.
Without health insurance my bills would go up to an extraordinary amount. I have two friends right now living in Florida who are dying because they can't afford their HIV meds. One is 43 years old, and the other is 24.
My partner has health insurance, but of course, because we can't be legally married, I have no access to that.
I have my own insurance because of my Union (thank God) but keeping it is always a gamble. You know, show business is "iffy" at best. I've been really lucky in my career and have worked for many years, but there have been dry times, and those times when I have to switch to Cobra have been the scariest times of my life.
Almost dying at 30 years old because I couldn't get into a hospital really turned my head. You haven't lived until you've almost died.
I don't know what the answer is. I do know that this lip service does no one any good. We need to cut through the crap and find a way (without taxing everyone to death to make it un affordable for the middle class) to allow everyone in America to have and benefit from health insurance.
My friends are dying. What do I tell them? Bush has their back?
A question -- do the American insurance plans include or exclude prescription medication? The monthly costs that ++ quoted were accurate though they vary from province to province. Those costs do not, however, cover prescription medication; many employers do offer a separate plan for those costs.
Also, the monthly health insurance premiums in Canada are not the only source of funding for the public health system. In BC, the premiums account for (in 03/04) $1.4 billion while expenditures in the same period were about $2.54 billion. The difference is funded from the provincial government, and its source of funds would be the taxpayer. I don't know how this might parallel the US system, but it certainly makes a direct comparison difficult.
I don't know how this might parallel the US system, but it certainly makes a direct comparison difficult.
I'm not sure why. The benefit for the average citizen is pretty clear, as there are few barriers to access to quality health care. In terms of cost, Canada spends a significantly smaller proportion of its GDP on health care than the US. And we live longer, which may be the best indicator of the success of the system.
"A question -- do the American insurance plans include or exclude prescription medication?"
It depends upon the plan. But good employer-paid plans cover most medications with a small ($10-$20) co-pay. My "catastrophic" plan pays 100% for meds after the deductable is met.
"In BC, the premiums account for (in 03/04) $1.4 billion while expenditures in the same period were about $2.54 billion"
I'm very sorry to hear it, Alex. I lost a friend years ago, before the the modern "cocktail" was developed.
"My friends are dying. What do I tell them? Bush has their back?"
Tell your friends that people (who provide nothing to healthcare) are making money in a healthcare system that simply lets them get sick or die because they don't have enough money and those same people are paying our politicians and inventing propaganda to try keep it that way. George Bush is just one of many who's been bought.
1. Guaranteeing everyone's health care is not the same as buying a cell phone. If you need me to explain why, well — look over there! Shiny keys!!
2. Giving people a tax deduction for buying health care from a bloated, inefficient private-sector system will do only one thing: raise prices for everyone.
3. Nothing in this "plan" makes health care univerally available.
The best solution is to make Medicare available to everyone right now. And then, if you want to buy additional coverage, go right on ahead.
[pause]
E-v-e-r.
[pause]
Nah Gah Dah.
[pause]
Wouldn't be prudent.
It will be reflexively opposed by market ideologue conservatives, and by the BDS-afflicted haters. But it offers something that sensible centrists in both parties can find attractive.
Too bad we didn't get the medical savings accounts though. Thanks to the so-called "progressives," whose all-or-nothing approach over the last 30 years has made things steadily worse.
Dean Esmay, meet Dinesh D'Souza. Dinesh, Dean.
It's not you, ++. Bottom line, it's the politics of money - Republicans servicing the private insurance industry. And, to be fair, some people honestly believe that "the marketplace" will yield the best solution to national healthcare, they just don't understand that insurance companies aren't really a natural part of the healthcare marketplace, they're just exploiters. Basically, in their simplistic way of thinking, if it's corporate it's market; if it's government it's anti-market. Go figure.
You have no idea how broken our system is, even for many people with means but no employer-paid insurance. A healthy, non-smoking couple over age 50 is looking at a minimum of $8-9K a year for insurance access to primary care. A pre-existing condition, accident or serious illness can make healthcare unaffordable for almost everyone.
No other country is so affected by corporate-contrived ideology and public policy. That’s why, at least when it comes to their healthcare systems, most industrialized nations have a healthier healthcare marketplace.
In the US I've read (somewhere) that the majority of health care dollars are spent on people in the last 6 months of their lives. Is there some way to confirm the truth of this? Also -- is that the way it works in Canada, or Denmark, or Sweden or [pick your country]?
What I'm getting at is this:
do people truly fear a change to "that" style of universal health care because they think they'll be denied some sort of life-prolonging procedure near the end of their lives?
Y'all get where I'm going with this?
Yes, yes, I know: universal health care would emphasize care throughout your life which would mean you'd be healthier and live longer. I'm pretty sure that the statistics show that to be true.
But that's not the issue for people who really fear what they have come to call "Hillary Care." They really and truly believe they will be presented with R. Crumb's "Cyanide Pie" at the age of 75. I'm convinced that this is why everyone found Dr. Kevorkian so sinister, despite everything to the contrary.
Shep, dpu: how do we address this?
The stuff you hear about rationing, etc, is crap. There are waiting lines for some non-critical stuff, but life-threatening conditions are dealt with promptly. There are occasional problems in certain communities, but these are generally administrative problems or resource allocation issues, and are exceptions rather than the rule.
In general, the care we receive is comparative in quality to the average facilities in the US, except that we provide care for everyone, and at a lower price.
The same way we addressed the train-wreck that was Republican control of government: tell the people the truth. Now that we have the means (the internets), we can catapult (over) the propaganda.
I think that, at least, they've now been convinced that insurance-industry system isn't working. Now we need to make the case why scare tactics of the right are bullsh*t (and who's behind them) and how single-payer would really work.
I'm paying almost five times that (for two healthy people) and have no coverage at all until we spend $5,000 on healthcare. And that's still cheaper than just the premiums on a policy with a co-pay and no high deductable.
If there's any good news, I think the insurance companies have cut their own greedy throats with this crap.
Without health insurance my bills would go up to an extraordinary amount. I have two friends right now living in Florida who are dying because they can't afford their HIV meds. One is 43 years old, and the other is 24.
My partner has health insurance, but of course, because we can't be legally married, I have no access to that.
I have my own insurance because of my Union (thank God) but keeping it is always a gamble. You know, show business is "iffy" at best. I've been really lucky in my career and have worked for many years, but there have been dry times, and those times when I have to switch to Cobra have been the scariest times of my life.
Almost dying at 30 years old because I couldn't get into a hospital really turned my head. You haven't lived until you've almost died.
I don't know what the answer is. I do know that this lip service does no one any good. We need to cut through the crap and find a way (without taxing everyone to death to make it un affordable for the middle class) to allow everyone in America to have and benefit from health insurance.
My friends are dying. What do I tell them? Bush has their back?
Also, the monthly health insurance premiums in Canada are not the only source of funding for the public health system. In BC, the premiums account for (in 03/04) $1.4 billion while expenditures in the same period were about $2.54 billion. The difference is funded from the provincial government, and its source of funds would be the taxpayer. I don't know how this might parallel the US system, but it certainly makes a direct comparison difficult.
I'm not sure why. The benefit for the average citizen is pretty clear, as there are few barriers to access to quality health care. In terms of cost, Canada spends a significantly smaller proportion of its GDP on health care than the US. And we live longer, which may be the best indicator of the success of the system.
It depends upon the plan. But good employer-paid plans cover most medications with a small ($10-$20) co-pay. My "catastrophic" plan pays 100% for meds after the deductable is met.
"In BC, the premiums account for (in 03/04) $1.4 billion while expenditures in the same period were about $2.54 billion"
Hell, we spend that in few weeks - in Iraq.
I'm very sorry to hear it, Alex. I lost a friend years ago, before the the modern "cocktail" was developed.
"My friends are dying. What do I tell them? Bush has their back?"
Tell your friends that people (who provide nothing to healthcare) are making money in a healthcare system that simply lets them get sick or die because they don't have enough money and those same people are paying our politicians and inventing propaganda to try keep it that way. George Bush is just one of many who's been bought.
Yup. Exactly.